CROP CIRCLE CONVERSATION

WELCOME TO OUR CROP CIRCLE DISCUSSION

"The crop circle is no more than a marking on the ground -- and a temporary one at that. Its shape and content and method of delivery disturbs some agency, somewhere, to the point of urgency. The crop circle is public property, arriving unannounced and unwelcome so far as the unknown agency is concerned. There is no control over the crop circle, and therefore it has to be reduced to ineffectiveness through whatever disinformation program distorted human minds can devise."
Doug Rogers
Centre for Crop Circle Studies, U.S. Network

LATEST COMMENTS:

The eloquent Walter Starck chimes in on Crop Circles: Quest for Truth

Read about tree circles

Geometry that can't be hoaxed -- Bert Janssen.

Unknown source knocks your socks off with circlemaker speculations.

A jungle circle.

Appreciation about the summer of 2001, when "CROP CIRCLES: Quest for Truth" was born.

Zef Damon reconstructs the geometry of crop patterns and thinks deeply about their significance.

National Geographic TV channel debunks crop circles.

The first part of this page is a discussion on crop circle disinformation:

From: Suzanne Taylor
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001

As this unthinkable reality keeps evolving, I keep thinking about that Arecibo formation, and how odd it feels not to follow up on what's more than just another intriguingly mysterious pattern. I don't know if these are the only circlemakers, but we seem to have a letter of introduction from the receivers of the Arecibo communication -- we said who we were and they said who they are. Now what? Does anyone want to think together about trying to have an exchange with this otherness? We would talk about what to say and about how to say it. What information would we want to convey, and would it be in another radio signal, or in some pattern made in crop, or do we try telepathy?

One good that could come out of these dark times would be us doing work together. Shields that separate people have melted, and there is much more camaraderie in the air. We croppie enthusiasts are such a privileged few to appreciate what is happening in the fields, and we are all the otherness has to be its conduit on Earth. Perhaps more is being asked of us -- and more offered to us. Does anyone else think this way?

From: Doug Rogers, Centre for Crop Circle Studies, U.S. Network
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001

You ask, "Does anyone else think this way?" re the exchange of information between Arecibo and Chilbolton. Answer: Yes, indeed. And I am sure you have lots of company. A few days after the arrival of those two formations in the field next to the M.O.D. radio telescope, on Aug. 14th and again on Aug. 19th, 2001, I felt the urge to write a poem. I don't ordinarily write poems. So, what was going on here?? Now that I think more about it, I must have been asking myself, as you are now....does anyone else see what I'm seeing in these amazing crop designs?

Three cheers for your idea to start a group conversation re the events of August, 2001!! To introduce to you my thoughts concerning the 27 year message turnaround -- from Puerto Rico to some unknown point in space, then back to England -- and from electronic medium to bent grain plants -- have a look at that poem.

Our message hurled into deep space,
Many years ago,
Has been returned, a drawn response,
For all to see...and know...
That if we thought bright minds lived here
On our green Earth alone,
The message in Chilbolton grain
Revealed a vast unknown.

For discussion: When Sagan and Drake chose M-13 for a delivery point, and threw their 1679 pixel message out in 1974 to that far off star cluster in deep space, I feel sure that neither one of them considered the possibility that their message might be intercepted by some intelligent entity located "nearby." Let me suggest that the Arecibo message traveled no more than a few minutes "out" before it was intercepted, interpreted, and a response prepared. Perhaps the message didn't have to leave our own solar system before being "caught." For discussion purposes, consider the line of information in the Chilbolton glyph wherein our Earth is given a raised pixel for identification, along with Mars, and along with either moons of Jupiter or a disintegrated planet. Who out in deep space would know so much about our solar system to be able to place such detail in a return message? May I suggest that if there is an intelligence right here in our backyard, that the Arecibo message came as no surprise to our local recipients, who then held on to their response for some date to arrive when the response would produce its greatest impact.

Having now started (or continued) some of your discussion, let me list some questions that are going to have to be answered before too long:

* If the response to the Arecibo message was shelved for several years, why was it sent to us in 2001, and not a few years before, or a few years after 2001?

* Why was the return message taken off the shelf and placed in the field at Chilbolton just 23 days before the attacks at New York and at Washington, D.C.?

* Might the pixel width of the outgoing message, and its returned pixel width at 23, have anything to do with the 23 day interval (or possibly advance notice) between the formation arrival and the date of the attacks?

* If the SETI organization sent out the original message in 1974, why wasn't it designated to be the receiver of the 2001 returned message?

* Wasn't it in the mid-1970's that the first crop circles were being noticed by people -- other than the children on farms, or by a few farmers? Might the crop circle have been chosen as the alternative to a returned electronic message, noting that the design in a field was a public affair, rather than private (as when received by SETI )?

* If there is no significance to the timing of the arrival of the quite revealing Chilbolton formation on Aug.19th, what was the purpose in bringing such an informative return message to us at this critical time in Earth's history? What has the progressive history of the crop circle been all about, for close to 27 years, if not to prepare us for a revelation?

Well, Suzanne, there you have it. If nothing else, you have an answer to your question about the thinking elsewhere.

Good luck with this on-line round-table discussion group!!!

From: Doug Rogers
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001

Suzanne, you should not be surprised at the efforts being made to discredit the crop circles, now that their presence has taken on new meaning. With the arrival of the Chilbolton glyphs, some agency of government is working frantically to keep the public off balance and disinformed. The most recent organization to be called into service is the National Geographic Society. The "Today" program, recently aired on the National Geographic TV channel, was designed to add credibility to the overall crop circle discrediting exercise.

The National Geographic people bought the most recent video tape of 2001 crop designs from someone and has used the views of Chilbolton and Milk Hill in the background while interviewing Reg Pressley and Matthew Williams. In these interviews, Pressley stated that 95% of crop formations are man-made, and Williams was shown making crop designs in a hired field.

Though somewhat low pressure tactics were used, the overall intent and goal of the program was to create doubt in American minds about the whole crop circle phenomenon. And it was effective! Anyone who was inclined to wish the circles away would have been satisfied that the whole thing is a hoax. This was the intent of the producer, the interviewer, the people interviewed, and of the National Geographic Society, which stepped out of character to lend its name to the program. I have no idea -- yet -- who brought National Geographic into this affair, but suspect that the Society had no choice.

All that aside, you see now what effect the enlistment of Matthew Williams in a National Geographic program has had upon his ego and upon his stature among his cohorts. The fact that Williams was arrested and fined last year has been turned around and into a badge of honor -- of stature. He has become a celebrity thanks to those who will do anything they can to confuse the public. Let me add this reminder: The crop circle is no more than a marking on the ground -- and a temporary one at that. Its shape and content and method of delivery disturbs some agency, somewhere, to the point of urgency. The crop circle is public property, arriving unannounced and unwelcome so far as the unknown agency is concerned. There is no control over the crop circle, and therefore it has to be reduced to ineffectiveness through whatever disinformation program distorted human minds can devise. You and your friends are up against a formidable foe, bent on undoing an effort on the part of another intelligence from elsewhere, to bring us along to an understanding that we are members of a populated universe. There's a battle under way. And it ain't going to be easy to win this one. Hang in there!!! You will need all the wit and guile you can muster to prevail.

Visit Swirled News for an interview with Doug Rogers.

More related Swirled News links:

Carol Pedersen gives a detailed account of the program.

Gary Val Tenuta tells us of a similar exercise last year on The Learning Channel.

William Gazecki, independent filmmaker, attacks the recent TV documentary featuring crop circles shown on The Learning Channel, "the channel that fails to teach... "

This exchange between Suzanne and Zef Damon began in the summer of 2001. Zef does amazing geometric reconstructions of crop circles.

Suzanne writes to Zef:

I love your reconstructions. I am in England for the summer, producing a feature documentary on the circles. The movie is by the man who did the Oscar nominated "WACO," William Gazecki, who loves the circles. Hopefully it will inform the world that we have a genuine phenomenon. Are you coming to England at all? We would love to talk to you for the film. We will be here till the end of August.

Thanks so much for your beautiful work. I'd love to know how you got so smart, how you became interested in the circles, and what you think they are all about.

Zef responds:

Thank you for your kind words! We (my family and I) have been in England for holiday, 31 July - 14 August. What a pity that we left the day after you sent your email (which I only read when we were at home again). I have seen your Website and I'm impressed. It is good to see you take the crop circle phenomenon seriously.

The first time I heard about crop circles was during a lecture of Benjamin Creme about the reappearance of Maitreya (see my Website for my view of it, and for references), back in 1991. The "Doug and Dave story" was front page news, and Benjamin showed (in his characteristic, catching way) how ridiculous their claim was. His story about the reappearance of the Masters of Wisdom into the daily world, for me, is the most acceptable view about the origin of crop circles, since he puts it in a much wider context. I'll be happy to share my thoughts about it with you, but that will take some time. In order not to delay this answer, I'll send it you now, and within a number of days I'll try to come back again.

Suzanne replies:

It is a shame we missed you. I am surprised you are not exchanging thoughts with the other people who do geometry work, and I'd liked to have filmed you with some of the others. I love what you do and would welcome anything you have to say about it. I'm familiar with Benjamin Creme, but even if you like his story, the phenomenon is still a mystery that will reveal itself -- or won't -- and will or won't conform to what anyone says about it. Anybody who claims to have the absolute bottom line seems silly to me, since we can't see that line. And it doesn't seem necessary to see the source -- we can just deal with its footprints, which are so inspirational and educational to us. Do you see the phenomenon taking us beyond where our designers and mathematicians go?

Zef replies:

As promised, I'll come back trying to line up some of my thoughts about crop circles. As I told you, I mainly follow Benjamin Creme. I think the majority of crop circles are made by our "Space Brothers," mostly from Venus and Mars. The most convincing element is that there is no "hard evidence." It is not for the space brothers nor the masters of wisdom to prove they are there, helping us evolve. It is up to us to change our minds, to see (and learn to know) who we really are, to look behind the ordinary common things, to stop quarrelling about everything, polarizing the whole world. Do we really know so much? Do we for instance know what (or who) is making a simple tiny buttercup so intensely yellow? The main reason for me to make reconstructions of crop circle formations (besides that I am fond of patterns, geometry and the like) is to make people (and myself!) look a second time -- to stop "knowing" (for the time being) and to try to look and see and perceive. One thing I perceive is, there is something (someone?) else here (like the buttercup). And I love it! It's beautiful! It's me, out there!

What I very much would like to know (I wish I could penetrate deep into it) is how different patterns relate to different kinds (or forms?) of energy. Why are some patterns so beautiful and sparkling, while others are so dull or far too smooth? What defines the tension in a pattern? Is it the mutual relationship between the components? (Of course! What else could it be?) Distance, skewed-ness, (relative) length, ratio, boldness, intersections, squareness, resonance perhaps? What music does a pattern make? With the crop circle patterns, I found that many of them have some kind of little "trick." Often, it happens that I think I have found the geometry, straight forward, and then it doesn't fit. It's not correct, it must be different, I have to change. See for instance my reconstruction of the 2000 Silbury Hill (2) formation at step 6a, which is resolved at step 10. These kinds of "recoveries" are common, but most of them not quite visible (I would have to give the history of how I found the reconstruction).

So far, just a number of thoughts. Much more can be said -- about the role of light as basis for our physical world instead of space and time (from which space and time could be "generated"); about the absolute perfect that cannot be perceived; about the ease with which many people (especially in "new-age circles") use words like dimension, frequency, energy, magnetism, which, at least in physics, have profound meanings; about the extraordinary important time of history we live in, etc. I hope I have given some idea of my ideas! By the way, I think exchange of ideas is of utmost importance. Being able to openly show one's view of things and being taken seriously is a very good thing. However, a lot of energy is going into disputes, polarizing people and creating camps. It is not my favorite. I prefer to give my energy to reconstructions and "let them speak for themselves."

Suzanne replies:

I recognize so much of myself in what you say. I, too, think they are helping us evolve. A wholeness is being offered for us to lift ourselves to. I look at whatever discord people might generate the way I look at hoaxers. There's real value to be gleaned, and it isn't in arguments or hoaxing.

I was surprised at your enthusiasm for Benjamin Crème. After he was wrong about his initial forecast, it surprises me he is still on the scene. What makes you think he's on the mark? And how would you have any sense of where the circlemakers come from? That seems to me to be an impenetrable mystery.

I entertain a fantasy that we are a little test group -- a potential that exists in this circumscribed field, where the challenge and the opportunity involves our coming into alignment. As long as we behave in the contentious way that the rest of humanity proceeds, we get no closer to the circlemakers, but, if we were to come into alignment, they would somehow reward us. It was with this thought that I went to England this summer, to create a gathering place where we could become a cooperative entity. With who showed up there, we achieved success -- akin to our crop circle listserve, where people feed each other -- but many people didn't come. Some were far enough away to make it understandable -- although others traveled surprisingly great distances. But some just weren't interested in alignment, just as many of the researchers have remained uninterested in the listserve. God love all of the lovers of the circles, but I think this maintenance of separation misses an opportunity. And then, of course, we have hoaxers and friends of hoaxers, who I think of like terrorists. There is no alignment to be had with those people.

The kinds of things you talk about I think are fascinating, and I'd love to hear more. Would you write for publication about what very few others would be capable of saying? This is an off the wall idea, but I wonder if there could be a book where more than one geometry person contributes. I have a manuscript from Nick Kollerstrom that I've sent to the publisher (who happens to be my nephew) who did Eltjo Hasselhoff's book, which has teachings about the geometry, that lacks for the kind of perceptions you have, not to mention the incredible constructions you do. I could see the two of you in the same book, and then perhaps others. It could be a smashing book, the likes of which isn't out there, coming from a few of you writing chapters.

I thank you so much for the awesome contribution you make. I don't see how you can figure these things out -- and it was interesting to get a glimpse of your process on that Silbury Hill formation.

The following is a discussion that ensued after Suzanne sent out her 2001 crop circle report:

Dr. Henry Monteith, Mathematics Professor at Eastern New Mexico University writes:

Thank you very much for the crop circle information and Websites. Gosh, that has to be the most awesome crop circle ever created! It is hard to believe that the appearance of such a circle formation did not get the attention that it deserved from the world's governments and press. The only conclusion is that an international conspiracy is most definitely in place to keep the world's people in ignorance of the fact that the entire universe is filled with highly intelligent life forms that are attempting to communicate with the people of earth.

Are you aware of the tremendous efforts being made by Dr. Steven Greer with his 'Project Disclosure? ( If you have not kept up with Steven Greer's efforts, you can read about it at disclosureproject.org.) He has gathered together more than 400 retired military, government, and intelligence officers who have pledged to testify before Congress concerning their knowledge of our government's contact with highly evolved aliens and their recovery of spacecraft and alien bodies. The most important of these retired officials is a close friend of mine and he lives right here in Roswell, New Mexico. He was on the Army's Retrieval team and personally removed dead aliens from a crashed spacecraft and helped a still living one to escape!!

Steven held a news conference in Washington on May 9, 2001, and 21 of these people testified at the conference, asking for a Congressional hearing on the subject of UFOs. So far, this has been resisted by Congress, and the news conference itself was not very highly publicized by our main news media such as ABC, CBS, and NBC. Indeed, my brother-in-law who lives in Washington D.C. did not even hear about the news conference! There was only a little coverage of it on Internet news.

I am now becoming very concerned about the mental, spiritual and ethical deterioration of the American people because, in spite of the fact that they have been bombarded for many years with almost endless evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligent life -- and the testimony of hundreds of credible observers -- their curiosity has not been stimulated and they seem to have no real desire to know the real truth about UFO's and to comprehend of their existence and purpose in this Universe! If this kind of thing had come forth over 60 years ago, the strong hearted American people of that day would have marched on Washington to get at the truth! American people are becoming more and more apathetic and ignorant; for example, the student body of MIT now consists of more than 70% foreigners and the percentage of American students majoring in the sciences, especially Physics and Engineering, is falling rapidly! So if the interest in science is declining, most certainly their interest in the Universe at large, and their desire to know their place in it, is rapidly falling!

This decline in mental development is strongly apparent in my mathematics classes. Daily, I find myself looking into blank, apathetic faces with minds that find it very difficult to grasp the simplest mathematical concept even when it is explained in terms of things that happen to them in their everyday lives. The majority of students entering college today have very little drive, initiative, incentive and desire to know. They are coming to school mostly because someone told them that it was necessary if they wanted to get a better job. The only real reason for going to school is that one has a great desire to know and to improve themselves; however, this motivation is present only in a very small percentage of our students and that motivation is in rapid decline. The technological competence of America is now being maintained almost exclusively by students who have been educated in foreign countries. As Nobel Prize winner Sheldon Glashow said: "Americans cannot hack it, foreign students are the solution, not the problem!" I am afraid that our country is now in decline and the lack of interest in what is taking place with UFOs and crop circles is strong proof of this fact.

Suzanne's response:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I wasn't aware of what you are talking about re students. I have no doubt of how accurate your representation is, and I'm very familiar with what Greer is doing. Fascinating that you know the important person who had a first hand experience. Hmmm. Is there some more play to be had with him? Is there any chance that he's not telling the truth?

Well, nobody promised us a rose garden. So then what to do? I just keep focused on where to from here, knowing I've been blessed with awareness and that that presents an obligation to lead the parade. I just keep my sites on "the small group of thoughtful citizens who can change the world," according to the oft quoted Margaret Mead. That I can focus on. And there's work to be done in our backyard. I look to put smart people together, where two heads are better than one. Now I'm thinking about how to frame dialogues that are essentially about crop circles, with circle researchers sitting with the likes of Nobel Prize winners getting aha's before our eyes.

Michael Newark, writer and dowser in England, writes:

The Chilbolton crop circles and the comments from Paul Vigay are of great interest to me. These crop circles could just be the most exciting we have seen to date.

I dowsed the Chilbolton crop circles and they answer, "made by spiritual means." The spirit who made the formation is not of this planet, the form we see in the picture is “them,” and the people have evolved to a very high level of development where they now don't have solid bodies. They are seen as shadows to us, while “at home” they remain in body form, small and delicate people similar to the greys.

The crop circles are a result of the message reaching them light years out in space. It is their answer, and we can expect more of the same over time. The site was picked for the circles because of its natural energies, which can be manipulated. Both the telescopes in Cheshire and Cornwall don't have the natural energies on site to produce the answer required in the form of pictures, while Chilbolton fills the bill.

The spirit forms seem to want to say hello and show they are friendly. While many light years distant from us, they have been through much the same process of development as we are now experiencing. They have gone on to a level where war and famine are things of the past; they work now to encourage other planets to walk the path of peace and love. We have made friends, and contact with space people/brothers has been made. Alien is not a word they understand -- since we are all God's Children, wherever we live.

I have not been drinking or smoking those funny cigarettes honest. It dowses this way, and I think something wonderful has happened here. Hoaxers may claim these crop circles, but would you buy a car from one of them? No way! Something extraordinary has happened, and who knows where this could lead. The calling card was sent, and one has been returned to us.

Wow.

Sharon Joy Kleitsch, Institute of Noetic Sciences Florida Coordinator, writes:

Remember that Ed Mitchell has been saying these things for years at the Institute of Noetic Sciences conferences and it's been recorded.

I think the idea presented here -- SETI being a set up -- seems right on.

Thanks so much for keeping my head in the stars...

Dr. Jonathan Sherwood writes:

One can only speculate on where SETI's intelligence is. Even Egyptian hieroglyphs were in pictographic form and were misunderstood until the Rosetta Stone turned up and taught us otherwise. I personally think it is appalling for people like SETI to make such ludicrous comments when they do not have any answers or clues. Does that mean any intelligent life that comes to contact us has to talk the way they want before we will listen?

Boy! Do they urgently need a wakeup call!

My first observation of the Arecibo reply is that laying anything like this down would be immediately fraught with problems! I firstly have to make note that to do a design like this one and get the design parameters exact as they are so that, even if you shrink it down, it still overlays the original design and aligns reasonably well, is one thought to keep in mind. The difficulty with creating this type of pattern is that it demands exact positioning of certain sections which need to be spot on in order for it to be a representation of a reply! This means, in four hours of dark night, a pattern of this type could be done only by mechanical (i.e. energy imprint) means!

Irv Thomas writes:

Right on, Suzanne...except I think it more likely that they are just so embedded in their anti-crop circles mentality, along with their conditioned assumptions as to what form a reply would take, that their brains are frozen. (Only a few degrees of difference, on a circular scale, from fried brains).

It reminds me of that old tale about the fellow who brought a talking dog to a vaudeville proprietor, seeking a booking. The manager asked for a demonstration, and then denied the request, for the reason that the dog had terrible grammar.

Thanks for posting all this material, which I have passed along on my own circuit to those I know would be interested. Have you heard of the Website, earthfiles.com?

Suzanne's response:

Thanks, Irv, I hadn't known about Linda Moulton Howe's Earthfiles site. That's a nice little summary she wrote in her "Headline News" section that I'd have directed people to if I'd known about it. Isn't is strange to be sitting in plain view of such hot stuff and watch the indifference to it? What a lesson in the way things are...

Palden Jenkins, teacher and speaker, writes:

This might be unpopular to say, but I believe that it's currently unproductive to try to work for general public acceptance of crop formations and their implications. We must remember that the adopted purpose of the mass media is not to enlighten humanity but to keep it asleep and disempowered. There are periodic exceptions, but this is the norm.

More positively, I believe it's best to try to communicate with people who are already, actively or latently, "believers," of whom there are far more than we're aware of -- and we must leave the rest to come and drink of the fountain when they're ready. What marks active and latent believers is a readiness to count their own intuitions, perceptions and knowingness as more valid than second-hand opinion, however persuasively presented. And evidential proof is rarely accepted on its own merits. It is accepted according to its ideological admissibility.

This approach of addressing believers is, to an extent, a bit discouraging. Keep lobbing nuggets to the wider public, in case it helps, but don't invest great hope in it. All these worthy things will be accepted and incorporated into the social mainstream only when the social mainstream itself goes through fundamental and total transformation. This transformation is coming slower than I and many others originally anticipated, but come it will.

Meanwhile, there's plenty we can do. We can chip away at the foundations of "civilization" and "rationality," and this has its value. We can research and develop the body of knowledge we call cereology within our own frame of reference, using mainstream mentality as a reference point, but not as a final judge of verity. There's a certain inevitability to the world's transformation, and the great cosmic chickens will come home to roost.

When I was with the Lamas in the 70's, they used to teach about "releasing attachment to the fruits of our labors." This is difficult, and something I myself have not mastered. Yet I am continually reminded of it as we see yet another debunking round unfolding before our eyes. Problem is, if I/we aspire to change the world, the risk is that we get profoundly disappointed if/when it gets blocked or doesn't happen, and then we give up!

We are challenged here to anchor firmly to our root-knowing of the inexplicable validity of our experience, and to keep working away at it without expectation, and to keep communicating with those who are open to it. They are growing in number, and we'll get there in the end. "The end," the breakthrough, will indeed come, and the trip-switch is already primed, though it seems we cannot determine when the breakthrough will be. It might be our children's privilege to witness, not ours. But let's expect the unexpected! Even if the big breakthrough came tomorrow, would we be ready for it?

Complete planetary transformation is a very intensely delicate matter, like handling nuclear fuel rods, and it must be done perfectly, otherwise it will fail or not work properly. This is why it hasn't happened yet: the exact, whole set of circumstances in which the trip-switch may be tripped has not yet arisen. In this context, we must be patient. I'm reminded here of something else one of the Lamas once taught: "Patience is applied timelessness." This involves *not even waiting, not even working toward an expected outcome.* This approach, I believe, invokes the highest magic. Nelson Mandela demonstrated it.

Meanwhile, we already know the answer deep in our hearts -- beyond concept, beyond language -- and we're perhaps just waiting for the rest, including our own "educated" minds -- to catch up.

Michael Newark writes:

Hi friends, hope everyone is keeping well, these dark cold nights do give you a chance to sit quiet and think about the various exciting things you did in the summer.

The meetings on Tuesday at Marston with Suzanne and Kim were a long drive, but worth it when so many nice people came along. Both then and now I believe when you get together people who gel with each other, having the same interests and beliefs, something special forms.

All the meetings I attended somehow developed to a point where you could almost cut the atmosphere with a knife, the room became brighter, and I felt a presence of love and excitement all around.

With William filming and the boom microphone moving this way and that, it did not diminish this atmosphere at all, while the various good people talked of their experiences, this special influence grew and grew.

And at the end of the evening when people began to leave and drive home, the atmosphere seemed to reduce and become normal again, leaving a very marked difference to when things were in full swing with exciting stories being aired round the room.

Could I suggest that during one of these meetings, when the people in the room felt the time was right, that we could have directed this atmosphere or influence out into the world to do our bidding -- to help someone sick, to heal the world, to make a crop circle after deciding a design between us? From my point of view, I think anything at the right moment could have been achieved.

And to take things a stage further, had the meetings just once been held in a center of an earth force like those within the Avebury stones. The influence and loving atmosphere in the room we felt would have been immense there, drawing on the power of the planet, no less.

Walter Francis writes:

Back in the 1950's, I had a business that took me to the jungles of Colombia and Brazil. At THAT time I was in the animal business. Treking through the jungles one hot and humid day, I looked up and saw this most beautiful reptile, A Colombian Emerald Tree Boa. It must have recently shed its skin as it was a most beautiful iridescence of green the likes of which I have never seen on any Colombian Emerald Tree Boa. I just had to have that specimen and was prepared to climb the tree if necessary to capture it. I proceeded to do just that and started my climb. The snake was about 60' - 70' above ground, and, as I just kept looking up as I climbed to keep the snake in view, I reached its position and grabbed it. Being tired and hot, I thought to rest for a moment on a nearby branch. Looking around, I could see an open field clearly about 100' from where I rested and could see an imprint of sorts on the grass. From where I was it was clearly seen as a rectangular (about 10' x 30') with two others, smaller and then again smaller inside. It was something I have never seen in my life -- before or since.

Descending the tree, I forgot my excitement over the Boa and upon reaching the ground headed over to the field of 12" to 18" high grass. I must say I was very disappointed as it did not have the nice sharp look as it appeared to me while up the tree. I forgot all about it until I went on the Internet about 3 years ago and started to read about such phenomenon. Do you really believe there is an intelligence behind Crop Circles? As far back as I can remember (I'll be 70 next birthday) I've ALWAYS had a strong belief that the Earth itself is a living entity and only allows us its use as far as we don't do unnecessary damage to it. Are there ANY genuine Crop Circles in New England? I hope you can give me, to the best of your knowledge, an answer to the questions I asked.

Suzanne replies:

I don't know about New England, but I'll post your email on our crop circle listserve to see if anyone knows. We do get a few in the States every year, but I've never heard of one in New England. Of course, the really good ones are almost all in England -- some pretty good ones in Germany and the Netherlands, and a smattering of others all over the world.

What a delicious story you have. And it sounds like it matches the phenomenon in that some formations that appear spectacular from the air look ratty up close -- not all, but some. Many are sharp, as if made with cookie cutters. What is unfamiliar in what you report is the shape. At this point, they come in all sorts of patterns, but until the 90's, all that have been reported were circles. But let's see what some of the old-time researchers from England have to say about your whole story, which I'm sure they will love.

Everything I do concerns helping the shift of consciousness move along, and the crop circles are what I believe stand the best chance to change the way everyone thinks, which at this time has assumed a real urgency. So I do a lot on their behalf, including helping produce what will be the first really good documentary -- by the filmmaker who got an Oscar nomination for "WACO: The Rules of Engagement."

My other preoccupation these days is with the war. I have an extensive Website to try to rally the progressive community at The Conversation: Making Sense of These Times.

Walter responds:

I heard from Doug regarding some swirling of grasses in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I was born and raised in Cambridge and know well the spot near the Charles River.

I've read all that is available on your Website. My, you are an interesting and busy individual! I agree with most of what you have to say. I say "most" because I have mixed feelings about wars, that is to say. It has been proving itself over time, that mankind is a warlike animal (and the deep thoughts rages, aggressions) are still coming through from our brain housing all that in its reptilian core, still active somewhat, though we live in "modern: times. There are those (peoples, countries) who have yet to catch up with the modern civilization, though we as Americans and Europeans consider ourselves civilized -- I don't believe we are. Hence, there are wars, wars and more wars. Will it ever end? I feel it won't until we can overcome the "reptilian" factor or we evolve somewhat differently, leaving that behind.

I love my country. (I enlisted in the USAF, which was then the Army, on August 8, 1950 -- Korean War broke out June 25, 1950). However, I do not agree with my country that we have to respond to the WTC bombing by bombing Afghanistan. I cannot tolerate our bombing of civilians.

Maybe people here in the U.S. and other countries should see to it that Third World countries are given all the necessary help needed to bring them into the 21st Century.

Who knows? Answers may lie in the crop circles!

Suzanne replies:

Yes, I agree with everything you say -- you are 100%, with me. And with many people. Obviously not all. Humanity is still evolving, and not all at the same pace. There is still barbarism, but it is old -- reptilian, as you say. The tragedies brought about by unevolved monsters help to galvanize the moves forward by the rest. I learned in esoteric studies that Hitler was useful to human evolution to push us collectively beyond where we were. This, too, now -- only we may all go down this time, given how good we have gotten at weaponry. Please God we will survive this. How pathetic when we have the capacity for something paradisiacal on Earth that we must still grovel this way. It makes me sick to watch war as entertainment on TV, the horrors interspersed by jaunty commercials. There is something obscene about that. We tempered it for awhile after 9/11, but materialism is back in full view again. The rich just have to equalize things more if we are to survive. That is the big mandate now, and we still haven't even considered it. That scares me. We are not doing what we could. That's why I have my 9/11 site -- I can't stand how short sighted we are, and am just sputtering away trying to do whatever I can.

Doug Rogers chimes in on Walter's comments:

I see someone is asking about crop circles in New England. Please pass along the fact that we've had very little activity in the fields here over the past decade. Since we have almost no grain farmers here, any ground designs would probably show up in grass. The closest crop designs, all outside of New England, have been found in New York and in Virginia. The New York design showed up in Mary Pyc's oatfield back on July 26,1993, Columbia, Herkimer County, where all the newspapers covered the story. The Virginia design arrived in grass just a couple of days before the S.S.E. (Society for Scientific Exploration ) held its annual meeting on the University of Virginia campus less than a mile away. That's about it for the entire East Coast.

Suzanne replies:

I've seen pictures of the Charles River, with some two miles, as I recall, of these spirally circles. Isn't is something that things like this occur, there for all to see, yet there isn't official attention paid to try to figure out what's going on.

Suzanne writes:

I had a strange experience a couple of weeks ago. I was writing a conversation piece, Making War Unthinkable, for my 9/11 Website, using my pile of scratch paper, which has come off the computer printed on one side. I came to a place in my writing where I wasn't sure if it was the end or I would go on to talk about crop circles. Here's the paragraph at which I had to make a choice:

"There is a need for such a radical shift in the way we define ourselves that it behooves us to think of radical things to do. What will wrench us out of our entrenchment? This is the thinking I invite and suggest everyone engage in. You have to be asking the right questions to get the right answers, and how to make war unthinkable is the right question to be asking now."

At this point, while I was thinking about whether to end the article or write about the circles as a radical thing to wrench us out of our entrenchment, I moved to the next piece of scratch paper, but discovered that I was at the first of five sheets that had mistakenly gotten into the scratch pile -- I couldn't write on them because they already had type on both sides. One side was junk, which must be how it got in the scratch pile; the other side had serious writing on it, which wasn't mine, that was headlined, "Otherworldy and Inter-Dimensional Relations, or Connecting with the Otherworldy." I presumed it was something I'd meant to throw away, but I looked at it first, considering I was choosing whether to go on to talk about crop circles and how odd that something at least related to that had come up on the scratch paper at this point. When I started reading, I realized it was a very well written piece, so I read the whole thing.

Here's the first paragraph that hooked me:

"From the leading-edge of physics to a variety of non-ordinary sources and experiences, our species is receiving ever-more information about the possibility, even the likelihood, that a larger, more inclusive, more true reality exists. Within this potentially more vast, multidimensional universe, our physically based life on Earth may be only one small aspect, only one kind or level of reality within that larger reality."

I read on. When I came to this paragraph, it was such good food for thought that it knocked my socks off, and although I don't want any of you to catch colds by walking around in bare feet as winter comes on, I thought you would enjoy this:

"My conjecture is that those who we are calling extraterrestrials -– at least those of them not inhabiting and embodied at the same physical-level density, frequency, or dimensionality as we are –- have evolved to a level of being able to engineer at will within and in terms of a true post-dualist unified field universe. They appear adept at telepathy and related manipulative expertise on what could be called the mental plane, and experiencers within their sphere of influence tend to experience a breakdown of the old inner-outer dualist dichotomy: inner or dream-like gets more like objective reality, and objective reality can seem to melt a bit and grow more translucent, shading toward a kind of subjectivity susceptible to mental influence. Extraterrestrials are also reported seeming to be able to use advanced forms of psychokinesis, or to-us anomalous control of matter by mind. In some cases, it appears they can control their vehicles with their minds alone; and there have been many reports of their vehicles being alive and at one with them, and of their own ability to alter the way they manifest to us, showing experiencers on occasion that the basic nature of their kind of embodiment, just as of their ships, is more like light or related immaterial energy that they are capable of working like the subtlest artist’s clay in their creative hands at a level of technological achievement bordering on true god-like creatorhood."

I wish I knew the author, but all I have is these few typed pages and this strange experience.

A Note from Suzanne:

When I found Bert Janssen's article, Crop Circle Elements: Size, Placing and Diatonic Ratios, on the Crop Circle Connector, I was struck by what is plain as the noses on our faces as a way to know that circles with complex geometries aren't hoaxed. What appears in a field is a function of having had many lines that are used in the construction of these patterns erased -- something you can do on paper, but not in crop. Since these construction lines would go through the undisturbed standing crop in a formation, humans couldn't have made any of the many geometric formations.

Bert says:

"What can be learned from the reconstruction of the 1996 Rockly Down formation? First of all, the different elements in the final design are in size and placing all determined by previous steps, determined by geometrical rules. Secondly, and this is at least of equal importance, we can see that several constructed elements cannot be found back in the final design. These elements were strictly necessary for the following steps but were then rubbed out. A good example is the big circle that was necessary to determine the placing of the three outer circles. This big circle cannot be found back in the final design! This is something that can be done easily on paper, but is impossible to perform in crop. You cannot make downed crop stand again!"

Paul Vigay, Editor & Publisher of "Enigma" New Sciences Research Journal and the world's most comprehensive Crop Circle Database writes:

I've recently been communicating with someone based in Canada, who witnessed some tree circles back in the 1960's. I'll reproduce the text of their enquiry below, but wonder if anyone can help provide more information or evidence?

"The event must have happened between the years 1963 and 1969. The location was Grand Lake, New Brunswick, Canada. I was raised in the town of Minto, a short 10 minutes drive from the lake. This area had long been strip mined for coal. In 1960, the mining company (N.B. Coal) started to reforest the area. Pine seedlings were planted over many acres around the lake. This was the most frequently used road to Princess Park (one of the most popular beaches used by the public), where trees were planted on both sides of the road. These trees were growing on crown land, in beautiful, perfectly straight lines.

"In about 3 years, maybe a few more, they had grown to be quite tall, and the butts of these trees were about 3 inches in diameter. In the middle of a summer afternoon, I was in a car on my way to the lake. Unfortunately, I don't remember who I was with. When we came up to this stand of pine trees, the road was blocked with police and army vehicles. There were several police and army personnel walking around inside the pine trees on both sides of the road. We were motioned to not stop, but to move along slowly. While passing by, I noticed, on both sides of the road, 2 circles. The trees were all bent to the ground. The circles were about 10 feet away from the edge of the road, one on either side. They were fairly large, about 12 feet in diameter. The really odd thing was all the trees laid down flat to the ground, all towards the outside of the circles. The tops of these trees all pointed to the circumferences of the circles. Later that afternoon, army trucks were still directing traffic away from the site. Talk around town was that bears had pushed the trees down. Nothing else was ever given for an explanation. I knew that couldn't be the answer. There were 2 perfectly formed circles, exactly the same size. They were each the same distance from the edge of the road. All the trees were pointing from the centers, towards the outsides of these circles.

"Months later, the trees were cut as close to the ground as they could. Fencing was put up to keep the curious out. We could see through the fence. There were no broken tree trunks. You could see the butts of the trees enough to see they were severely curved at ground level. Impossible to do without breaking the trees.

"I haven't been back there in 13 years now, but for years later nothing grew there. This is not a story; this is the truth. Why would they call the army if it were only bears? Why would they fence it off?"

If you have any information on tree circles, email Paul at pvigay@cropcircleresearch.com.

Walter Starck from Townsville, Australia, Editor/Publisher of Golden Dolphin Video CD Magazine, writes to William Gazecki re our Crop Circles: Quest for Truth film:

Yesterday I read about Crop Circles: Quest For Truth. As I read the piece, I began to feel something of the wonder, discovery and elation you describe in experiencing the actual phenomena. These circles have intrigued me for some time but without direct knowledge that they do occur in the manner reported. I had reserved a degree of skepticism, wondering if the images might be a Photoshop phenomena. This could of course be easily answered by personal experience or, lacking that, a good report by a credible observer. You have provided the latter. Your description rings of truth and your excellent documentary on Waco speaks forcefully to your credibility. The current documentary will, I am sure, provide ample and verifiable evidence these things do exist.

Although the circles themselves are truly remarkable and inexplicable within the limits of our currently prevailing concept of reality; the human reaction to them is in some ways even more remarkable. While a small minority experience the wonder and elation a large majority seem to have no reaction at all. It is almost as if, though physically visible, they are somehow mentally invisible. Like cosmic rays they pass right through most minds without effect. Then there is another small minority who are aggressively opposed to any consideration of them and claim they themselves could create the circles or are even responsible for them. As far as I know though, none have ever demonstrated a capacity to produce anything like the elaborate artifacts in question.

There is nothing to indicate the circles are manmade nor even any conceivable way one might make them overnight, repeatedly, in various places all over the world, undetected and without trace. In short I don't think they are hoaxes or secret government activity. There is a certain mindset/personality commonly associated with large hierarchical organizations (particularly authoritarian ones) that sees a threat in anything they cannot understand or control. If there is also an element that challenges consensus belief and it is attracting a following the threat becomes intolerable. With crop circles there is nothing for them to attack but credibility. Their nay saying is probably as much for reinforcing their own denial as for convincing others. They simply can't tolerate the idea that something is going on that challenges their fundamental world view and which is totally outside the reach of government control. Whether they are individuals operating at their own initiative or are receiving some clandestine backing is unimportant. It is all the same mindset and aim and equally as impotent.

All they are really saying is: "I don't believe it and anyone who gives it any credibility is dangerous; not just mistaken but willfully evil." Meanwhile they are thinking, "I could easily do that if I really wanted to. Could sounds a bit weak -- I'll just say I have and end any argument." If anyone won't accept that, don't argue, intimidate. The media for their part are not looking for good news or anything that can't be nicely wrapped up with a conclusion. Inexplicable happenings that make people feel good is no story. A hoax accompanied by a bit of conflict and aggression is more what they are prone to report.

All this is only a side issue. What really counts is the phenomena itself and especially its effect on and clear linkage with our own consciousness. Three possibilities come to mind. They may derive from another consciousness interacting with us, or it might be some manifestation of a higher consciousness of which we are a part, or it could be a manifestation solely of our own. Whether it is any of these or something else altogether, it clearly has profound implications for our understanding of the real nature of our own being. This is truly exciting stuff and you are to be commended for having the courage and perception to do so to bring it to wider awareness.

There are other phenomena with certain parallels and many, perhaps most, of us have had experiences outside the realm of cause and effect rationale that push the limits of coincidence into meaninglessness. I believe your documentary is going to have important effect. I hope you will be making it available on DVD as well. If you have the time and interest to discuss any of this further I would be pleased to do so.

[For more of this conversation, visit our Walter Starck Featured Conversation page.]